Why am I still watching《陈情令》despite everything?

[cashew]

Friend dragged me into the second episode of the TV drama. The acting is a bit...up and down.

So, when I looked the show up, it turns out almost none of the actors dubbed themselves, which, as friend and I figured, probably means none of the actors' enunciation passed muster. LOL. According to the list, only one character (聂怀桑, played by 纪李) dubbed themselves. Maybe I'll keep watching and see who this self-dubbing actor is.

(It's common practice in Chinese dramas to have both a visual actor and a voice dubber for each character due to the nature of dialects. In order for the audio to be decipherable by nationwide audiences, the pronunciation has to be standardized to the official pronunciation. This requires specialized training, which a lot of actors, especially TV actors, don't have. To give you an idea of how different pronunciations can get across the country: historically, it's common for government officials to hire a local translator who knows both the official dialect and the local dialect so that they can understand the local people.)

Also, I realized that the series keeps putting up the Chinese names in the archaic style, which probably is confusing as fuck for people used to the English/American style of names, so I'm going to explain how Chinese names are put together.

There are five basic components to Chinese names: 姓、氏、名、字、号. The patriarchy is strong in ancient Chinese culture, so it's unsurprising that the name that comes from the mother's side is the one that never gets mentioned. But I'm getting ahead of myself. Lemme break it down.

姓(xing): Mother's family name. (BTW, this character is split into 女(woman) and 生(birth). So the character reveals the origin of the word.) This name is the first to be brought up in a conversation when asking for a person's identity. Usually the line goes like this: "姓甚名谁，快快招来". Which translates roughly to "What is your family name and what is your given name? Hurry up and report it." Post-Qin, the 姓 and 氏 (see below) were merged together to mean the family name (usually from the man's side). In modern times, the child's official family name can come from either the mother or the father (when previously only the father can pass down the family name). In modern forms, 姓 now refers to your family name, and if you see it on an official document, they're asking for your "last" name — because Chinese women retain their family name and don't change their name after marriage. In short, in period dramas, 姓 is the officially recognized family name, usually from the dad's side because patriarchy.

氏(shi): Father's family name. This is pretty straight forward and is the first character written a person's name. Modern speech doesn't differentiate the 姓 and 氏, so it's combined into 姓氏, shortened to just "姓". This name is inherited by the kid and about 98% of the time it is a single character. There are a few family names that is composed of two characters and is known as a "compound family name". These are rare, but a lot of famous people have them. Classic examples are: 欧阳、诸葛、司马. Compound family names usually originate from royalty or families with a lot of political influence and result from the effort to keep both lines alive. A joke in Chinese novel writing is that anyone with the family name 欧阳(Ou'yang) is automatically cool.

(An aside: Women are historically always recorded as [something]氏, as their importance is their patriarchal lineage and basically nothing else. This is just how women were treated back then. No given names, just family name.)

名(ming): Given name. This is the name given by the parents and YOU CANNOT CHANGE IT, SHUT UP AND TAKE IT YOU IMPIOUS CHILD. It is either one or two characters. When the name has one character, it's a word that is supposed to pass down the parents' good wishes for the offspring. When the name has two characters, the first character refers to the generation, while the second character is specific to the individual. For example, brothers should, according to name convention, share the second character in their names, as that character is the generational name in the family. For example, 毛泽东(Mao Zedong) has a brother named 毛泽民 (Mao Zemin). 毛(mao) is the family name (dad's side), 泽(ze) is the generational name, and 东(dong) is the name specific to Mao Zedong.

Up to this point, this is the full legal name. This is the name you put on your exam papers and register for ID cards, and is your social identifier. Unlike in English, you do not drop any of these parts when referencing someone. You must refer to the person by their full name. Only very, very close people can drop the family name, and only parents can use the singular last character for their kids that have a two-character given name.

In ancient times, when referring to oneself, one does not use the pronoun 我, as this is considered rude and grandiose and only appropriate if the speaker is higher ranked than the listener. Instead, one refers to oneself by the given name to show humbleness. Unless you're a woman, then you can't even refer to yourself by name, but have to use your social title like "小女" (little woman) for young women, "妾" (wife) for married women...OK, you know what? This is getting too deep into the weeds, let's leave it for now. Point is, pronouns used in speech are dependent on social class.

字(zi): The other given name as an adult. This is an ancient practice that is no longer practiced in modern times. Historically, once you reach adulthood (20 for men, successful marriage for women), you receive yet another name from either your parents or your mentor/teacher, this is the 字. It is inappropriate to call people by their 名, unless you know them very well. Thus, a more appropriate "social" name is given, based on your given name. There are four major ways of picking the 字: same meaning, explanatory meaning, opposite meaning, or logical extension. 字 is what your colleagues and superiors call you. Only the most intimate relationships use 名 and thus it's very improper if you hear supposedly ancient Chinese people calling each other by their given name. Or they're trying to disrespect you.

In modern grammar, 名 and 字 are combined into 名字 and just means "name".

姓、氏、名、字 are all fixed and CANNOT BE CHANGED. If you tried to change it, you will have committed the great sin of being impious to your family and your ancestors. And remember, ancestor worship is fucking huge in China. You will be considered to be morally corrupt if you tried to change your given name. So, what to do if your parents are complete dumbasses and saddled you with a crappy name? This is where 号 comes in.

号(hao): Self-given name. This is usually something the person picks for themselves or is given to them by their peers in recognition of their character as a person. This usually has to do with something you work at or where you live or your personality, etc. It's similar to an epithet in the West. Often, these are things like "dweller of [insert location name]", "student of Tao at [location]", etc. Look, it sounds nicer in Chinese, OK? These are usually four characters long; occasionally they can be two characters long.

So, here's a real life example from a pretty famous Chinese historical character to give you a taste: 诸葛亮(Zhuge Liang). (Did you notice he has a compound family name?)

姓氏 (Family name): 诸葛 (Zhuge)⬅Dad's side (琅琊诸葛氏)
名 (Given name): 亮 (Liang)
字 (Adult name): 孔明 (Kongming)
号 (Self-given name): 卧龙 (Wolong)⬅literally means "crouching dragon", so badass!

Therefore, he would be referenced in narration as "诸葛亮" (Zhuge Liang) or "诸葛孔明" (Zhuge Kongming) or "诸葛卧龙" (Zhuge Wolong). He would use "亮" in place of the first-person pronoun when speaking to others of equal or higher social status. People of a lower class would call him by the appropriate social title "先生" (aka mister or teacher), no names. If you're a little bolder or there are multiple teachers around, he can be referred to as "诸葛先生" (aka "Mister/Teacher Zhuge"). If you're a huge fan, you can call him "卧龙先生". To his close friends/superiors, he'd be known as "孔明". To his peers and enemies, he'd be referred to as "卧龙". Except 周瑜(Zhou Yu) who famously referred to him as "亮" and all the BL was born.

...now, I wonder how many MDZS fics actually follow this naming convention?

(BTW: If you're trying to scream someone's name, first, it just isn't done because it's improper; you don't speak a person's given name to their face unless it's parents to their child. But if you must call for them loudly for whatever reason, then you use the family name + title. So, using the previous example, if 诸葛亮's superior is trying to find him, they would call out "诸葛军师". 军师(jun shi) is a military title, basically the "teacher of the military" or "master strategist".)

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Finally, an addendum: I noticed that MDZS uses a lot of "[Name]Clan of [Location]". (For example, the first two groups I encountered are 姑苏蓝氏 and 兰陵金氏.) This reference convention is necessary because a lot of Chinese family names are...uh, the same. For example: the 李(Li) family name is 100 million strong. Not all of them are related to the famous imperial family of the Tang dynasty. So, you have to clarify where the family comes from, aka identify the branch from the sprawling family clan.

OK, I'm done.

Comments

[tanithryudo]

> Except 周瑜(Zhou Yu) who famously referred to him as "亮" and all the BL was born.

But, like, is here proof he did that *historically*? Or is that just exclusive to ROTK? Cuz, y'know, it could be the author of ROTK is a shipper. :p

I really doubt most fics, even fics written by Chinese authors, would follow actual convention. Just too much work for something that's meant to be brainless fluff.

[cashew]

LOL, firstly, I'm pretty sure the original meaning is meant to be disparaging and the shippers chose to read it the other way. Second, yeah, we don't know historically what the man said, that's pure fiction on the author's part, who was still writing in the Ming dynasty, so still followed a lot of the old name conventions. Third, one does not need to know the rules to still grasp the general sense of the correct address. That shit's been beaten into our brains since we're little.